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something might automatically change underneath us that could be important,

I think this is the problem to try to solve.

i think it’s pretty challenging to do when you rely on higher level pulumi providers, we’ve had a lot of minor changes happen under our feet with e.g Pulumi EKS that can cause our nodes to recycle and stuff

That's normal k8s behaviour, none of that should impact your Pulumi state

I’m talking about e.g Node AMIs being changed (because pulumi EKS pulls the latest node image). That’s something that happened to us and caused all of our workloads to move to new nodes. I fixed that by specifying a node AMI in the resource inputs, but the point is that I’ve found it unrealistic to rely on

pulumi up

being an inert activity. Maybe this is a pulumi EKS specific problem, not sure

Yeah you definitely don't want to upgrade your EKS AMI w/o realising it!

pulumi up

should (imho) be run regularly enough that changes are small, and not have unpredictable side-effects. If something is altering your infrastructure out from under Pulumi, that's not ideal. If you want less possible side-effects from a given

up

I'd look at a more micro-stack arch.

it still would make me feel better to preview them before they run. like the fact that i’ve had a bunch of issues just makes me not trust letting it run on its own, even if i chase down the current ones. our app deployments are actually in a separate stack but there are other resources in there as well that I wouldn’t want accidentally changed

Ultimately you need to get to a place where you trust your CICD and testing. Deploy to lower level environments, automated tested, promote.

i mean we run preview in CI on PRs before we merge them - that’s how i’m trying to trust it

Trust, but verify 😃

that’s what i’m trying to do! but it sounds like your suggestion is that we should be cool closing our eyes and hoping that nothing ever changes underneath that. i get how that’s an ideal but it doesn’t comport with my experience with pulumi at all so far

If you run

pulumi up --refresh

ten times without code changes, does it ever change anything?

sometimes yes it does. there’s one specific issue i’m trying to chase down with EKS where our security groups keep getting deleted and recreated, was in the middle of filing a ticket about it earlier

If it does, then it's (a) a bug (b) something is changing things w/o pulumi's knowledge (c) your pulumi code is fetching dynamic values, which should be avoided if you want consistency